A Gap of Three Between the Derived Lengths of a Finite Soluble Group and of a Maximal Subgroup (Kourovka Notebook Problem 17.91)

Problem 17.91 of the Kourovka Notebook, posed by V. S. Monakhov and also Question 9 of a survey of Monakhov and Trofimuk (2010), asks whether d(G) − d(M) ≤ k for an absolute constant k, for all finite soluble groups G and maximal subgroups M, where d is the derived length, and asks for the least such k. We answer neither part. We show that k ≥ 3 if k exists: the split extension G = 3^{1+2}_+ ⋊ GL(2,3) of order 1296 has derived length 6, and its maximal subgroup 3^{1+2}_+ ⋊ B of index 4, with B a Borel subgroup, has derived length 3. By an exhaustive computer search in the SmallGroups library, reduced by elementary lemmas, 1296 is the least order of a finite soluble group with a maximal subgroup M such that d(G) − d(M) ≥ 3, and exactly three groups of order 1296 have one. We prove that d(G) − d(M) ≤ 1 + min{e, d(M_G)}, where M_G is the core of M and e = d(M/M_G), and deduce that a difference 4 needs |G| ≥ 5184; we also give a formula for split extensions which explains why the construction does not iterate in the simplest cases. In a second pair with difference 3, of order 41472, the group is a primitive permutation group of degree 64. The group G itself is a term of an extraspecial tower of Glasby and Howlett. Related results of Doerk, of Gol'chuk and Monakhov, and of Murashka and Vasil'ev concern other lengths or special cases and do not answer the question. The contribution is modest. This is an unrefereed note. Unrefereed preprint released for independent mathematical scrutiny. Publication on Zenodo does not constitute peer review. AI-assisted tools supported research, computation, proof development, and manuscript preparation. The author remains responsible for all claims and the final text. Corpus identifier: KOU-17.91 (Kourovka Notebook, Problem 17.91, proposed by V. S. Monakhov, 17th issue, 2010).

Authors

Publication Details

Journal
Zenodo (CERN European Organization for Nuclear Research)
Published
2026-10-27
DOI
https://doi.org/10.5281/zenodo.23695695
Primary Topic
Finite Group Theory Research
Type
preprint
Controls
|||
ALL TIME
JAN
FEB
MAR
APR
MAY
JUN
JUL
AUG
SEP
OCT
preprint

A Gap of Three Between the Derived Lengths of a Finite Soluble Group and of a Maximal Subgroup (Kourovka Notebook Problem 17.91)

Alper Ferudun
Zenodo (CERN European Organization for Nuclear Research)
Finite Group Theory Research
preprint

A Gap of Three Between the Derived Lengths of a Finite Soluble Group and of a Maximal Subgroup (Kourovka Notebook Problem 17.91)

Alper Ferudun
preprint en

Abstract

Problem 17.91 of the Kourovka Notebook, posed by V. S. Monakhov and also Question 9 of a survey of Monakhov and Trofimuk (2010), asks whether d(G) − d(M) ≤ k for an absolute constant k, for all finite soluble groups G and maximal subgroups M, where d is the derived length, and asks for the least such k. We answer neither part. We show that k ≥ 3 if k exists: the split extension G = 3^{1+2}_+ ⋊ GL(2,3) of order 1296 has derived length 6, and its maximal subgroup 3^{1+2}_+ ⋊ B of index 4, with B a Borel subgroup, has derived length 3. By an exhaustive computer search in the SmallGroups library, reduced by elementary lemmas, 1296 is the least order of a finite soluble group with a maximal subgroup M such that d(G) − d(M) ≥ 3, and exactly three groups of order 1296 have one. We prove that d(G) − d(M) ≤ 1 + min{e, d(M_G)}, where M_G is the core of M and e = d(M/M_G), and deduce that a difference 4 needs |G| ≥ 5184; we also give a formula for split extensions which explains why the construction does not iterate in the simplest cases. In a second pair with difference 3, of order 41472, the group is a primitive permutation group of degree 64. The group G itself is a term of an extraspecial tower of Glasby and Howlett. Related results of Doerk, of Gol'chuk and Monakhov, and of Murashka and Vasil'ev concern other lengths or special cases and do not answer the question. The contribution is modest. This is an unrefereed note. Unrefereed preprint released for independent mathematical scrutiny. Publication on Zenodo does not constitute peer review. AI-assisted tools supported research, computation, proof development, and manuscript preparation. The author remains responsible for all claims and the final text. Corpus identifier: KOU-17.91 (Kourovka Notebook, Problem 17.91, proposed by V. S. Monakhov, 17th issue, 2010).

Zenodo (CERN European Organization for Nuclear Research)
Finite Group Theory Research
AI Navigator

Ask Laika to Summarize, Analyze, and Connect papers live on the map.

Summarize Papers & Methodologies

Extract key findings, datasets, and comparative methods across publications.

Benchmark Rankings & Visual Analytics

Rank top research institutions, authors, funders, topics, and journals by Field-Weighted Citation Impact (FWCI) and paper volume with instant charts.

Connect Distant Disciplines

Bridge topological clusters on the map to find hidden collaborative intersections.

Laika access coming soon