Episode 34: Black Hawk Down (2001) (Guest: Gregory Fox)

Black Hawk Down (2001) describes the plight of the U.S. crew of a Black Hawk helicopter that is shot down during the Battle of Mogadishu during the civil war in Somalia in October 1993. The battle resulted in the death of 18 American soldiers and hundreds of Somalis; it also prompted the U.S. withdrawal from Somalia after images of dead U.S. soldiers being dragged through the streets of Mogadishu by enraged Somalis were broadcast on American television. Directed by Ridley Scott from a book by Mark Bowden, Black Hawk Down is a gritty action movie that captures the brutal nature of urban warfare. It also provides a window into a host of complex international legal and political issues as well as the opportunities–and challenges–for humanitarian intervention in the aftermath of the Cold War. Guest: Gregory Fox Greg Fox is Professor of law and Director of the Program for International Legal Studies at Wayne State University Law School. Professor Fox is a widely cited authority on international law and international organizations and a leader in a variety of academic and professional organizations. Professor Fox began his legal career in the litigation department of Hale & Dorr (now WilmerHale) in Boston, where he worked on one of the early cases brought under the Alien Tort Statute, Forti v. Suarez-Mason. He held fellowships at the Max Planck Institute for Comparative Public Law and Public International Law in Heidelberg, Germany, and at the Schell Center for Human Rights at Yale Law School before beginning his teaching career. From 1992-95 he was the co-director of the Center for International Studies at New York University Law School. Professor Fox is the recipient of a MacArthur Foundation/Social Science Research Council Fellowship in International Peace and Security. He is the author of numerous scholarly articles, including "The Right to Political Participation in International Law," 17 Yale J. Int'l L. 539 (1992), which is one of the 10 most cited articles ever published in the Yale Journal. His book, Humanitarian Occupation, reviews the U.N.'s experience in administering entire states or portions of states. In other academic work, Professor Fox has examined the state of occupation law, arguing against efforts to endow occupying powers with virtually unlimited authority to transform the states they control. In addition to his academic work, Professor Fox has served as counsel in several international cases. Timestamps: 0:00 Introduction1:40 A primer on Somalia and its history 6:40 International humanitarian intervention9:50 Post-Cold War Era Opportunities15:33 Preparing to go into Somalia24:27 The pros and cons of intervention23:04 U.S. intervention after the Vietnam War24:43 The challenges of intervening in civil wars33:47 Urban warfare43:14 Legacies of the Battle of Mogadishu52:06 UN debates over humanitarian intervention54:55 Somalia after the Battle of Mogadishu Further Reading: Bowden, Mark, Black Hawk Down: A Story of Modern War (1999) Carroll, Jonathan, “Courage Under Fire: Reevaluating Black Hawk Down and the Battle of Mogadishu,” 29 (3) War in History 704 (July 2022) Fox, Gregory H., Humanitarian Occupation (2008) Hakimi, Monica, “Toward a Legal Theory on the Responsibility to Protect,” 39(2) Yale J. Int’l L. 247 (2014) Lee, Thomas H., “The Law of War and the Responsibility to Protect Civilians: A Reinterpretation,” 55 Harv. Int’l L.J. 251 (2014) Luttwak, Edward N., “Give War a Chance,” Foreign Affairs (July/August 1999) Hathaway, Oona A. & Hartig, Luke, “Still at War: The United States in Somalia,” Just Security (Mar. 31, 2022) Wheeler, Nicholas J., Saving Strangers: Humanitarian Intervention in International Society (2002)