Latter-day Saint Art: A Critical Reader with Editors Mason Kamana Allred and Amanda K. Beardsley

September 18, 2024Latter-day Saint Art: A Critical Reader is the first comprehensive critical examination of Latter-day Saint art. In this interview, transcribed and edited for length from a podcast conducted upon publication, Glen Nelson interviews coeditors Mason Kamana Allred and Amanda Beardsley about the volume.Glen Nelson: With a book that's so big, twenty-two chapters, there's so much content that we could talk about. I think we need some kind of organizing structure in our chat today. So here's my strategy. I'd love you to give an overview of what the book is, who's involved, and how it came to be. Then I have something fun. I've asked the two dozen authors involved to send me a question to ask you for this interview. A few weren't able to send a question, but most did, and some asked multiple questions. As people ask you about the book, or you're talking about it, how are you describing this to people?Mason Kamana Allred: I'm often letting them know up front that it does have a scope to it. We did have to sit down and decide, what can we cover? It's huge, but what do we have to cut out? It is focused on visual art from Latter-day Saints, but it has a pretty long history; it's that whole long history since the Restoration of the Church in 1830. It covers quite a bit, but you're not going to find much on poetry or dance in here. It really is visual art, but it is, to my mind, really the first moment where we've gathered so many experts, scholars from different disciplines, different backgrounds, to look into this with such depth, from tons of different angles, and across that longish history I'm talking about. You just haven't quite seen it like this before. It is monumental. I think it is a groundbreaking book in that sense: who it brought together, what they were able to accomplish in that. That's how I'm describing it to others.Amanda Beardsley: Yeah, I'm doing similar. I think for me, I describe it more as an anthology, a more traditionally academic anthology, but it is also something that anyone could read because there are so many different approaches, as Mason said, that tell a very diverse array of stories. These stories are kind of like case studies in Mormon history that are tied to some works of art that I don't think have ever previously been in print before. What's really exciting is that it's going to show two-hundred-plus images. We had a lot of them digitized for this book. And it explores some new topics through the lens of art history that I haven't seen very much in Mormon scholarship. I know there are a few chapters on race as it relates to image, as well as feminism and film. We take on a lot of different topics, and that was intentional because we want to put at the forefront that it's impossible to get one comprehensive history, especially when it comes to art history when we're interpreting images.Nelson: We're doing this interview over Zoom, and both of you are book lovers, I can tell, because behind you are bookcases ceiling to floor. So I have to tell you a funny story. About an hour ago, I'm in Salt Lake doing some work here, and I was at the Church History Museum's library. It's mostly a conference table with bookshelves all around it, and it contains probably the largest collection of books about art by Latter-day Saint people that I've ever encountered or heard about. That said, you could put all of those books on a few bookshelves. There just isn't stuff out there. Does that sound right to the two of you?Beardsley: It does. I would say there are a handful of books. Those are more monographs, usually, that we find in Mormon art history and in the arts, generally a book about a single artist who is already well known, like Minerva Teichert or something like that. But in terms of an art historical approach to a history of art, we really only have a few books that have been written, and a lot of those are devotional books written by curators in the Church. [Lorin] Wheelwright, for instance, is one of them. In terms of bias, it's very front and center that these are devotional books and less scholarship, though there is some rigorous scholarship in there. So they gave us a little bit of an entry point, but I would say there's maybe two or three of those books. One of them that came from a conference in the ’70s, and then—Allred: We cover a few of these in the introduction if you're interested in that kind of background, historiography, what's been done. But you're right. I would say Mormon studies is actually booming right now. But as far as art history analysis appreciation within Mormon studies, that's just not happening. This book is like, “Hey over here, let's turn your attention to this.” This is really important. If you want to understand the full picture of the Latter-day Saint or Mormon experience, you've got to include this artwork, and these chapters speak to that. These chapters show just how integral the creativity, the creative process, and that final product has been to the development of Latter-day Saint culture and religion.Nelson: Now let's turn our time to the questions of authors. We talked a little bit about what the book is like just generally, but it's so interesting because their interests are really varied. I have questions here from most of the authors from the book. First up, Richard Lyman Bushman. Richard cowrote the foreword of the book. It won't surprise you to know that he's a big picture thinker, and his question is a big picture question. He says—it's kind of a compound question—what comes next? What do you think is the next step in scholarship about LDS art? Your volume has gone a long way. What would you like others to do now?Beardsley: I have so many answers to this because, as an art historian and one of the few art historians working in Mormon art history, I just get really excited. The next thing is to take every single one of our chapters and make them book-length projects, because every chapter is. It was so frustrating to the authors. They're like, I only get so many words to talk about Mormon cinema. Randy Astle wrote a huge book on that too. So having to condense this huge topic into a single chapter was very frustrating for a lot of us, and also a really great challenge because scholars should be more succinct and less long-winded. I think every single one of those topics in there would be great. I would love to see, for example, Jenny Reeder's chapter as a book on hair art and on quilt making. Hair art could be its own book. Quilt making could be its own book. Relief Society buildings could be its own book. I think even within the chapters, there are topics that can be pulled that are really exciting for book-length or dissertation-length projects. I would love to a more even what we as much as we I think that chapter on art as it to some of the art within was a case a case in that. even just we in different chapter was about a but so was so I think that we have a lot there. Mason this a little bit This is a book. I think in terms of we could As a sound studies that me to think of a sound art history of I think we have people on that. I think for instance, is who in the on sound and but I would love to something more the Then the for me, just as a would how do art and work within I think there's something really and really there that I'd love to by scholars as That's my I with There are just so many that this I think that you can take it as this really at to Mormon art where you can in some more where you're like, there's something those two chapters that been done. I'm just the book-length of the chapters there's new little that can I think it that way. And as Amanda was to say with the sound studies, I want to the book on dance and on poetry and on and so I would love to that where it has those as because people love it. But we're this too. That's my talked about this and in the we that a lot of Mormon studies has been very What we here, is more historians the I'd love to that where people and I want to take of what's here with the in this or moment in time I'm I would love to that I was with both of you as that you are the authors to do more interpreting of the works they were and I think that's something generally that's that the could really I and I think that's one of the that art history to this is not just but the and the time to actually describe what we are at here. That analysis is such an but such an in a lot of That was something that as we to really put front and center as a tell us what this like as art historians or people who are not art historians who have to an art history This is really And by doing we to as well that if you want a more culture to we're also that We want authors to their chapter in a where you could about these or these having seen them. That would be for this book. So you're right that we did and our authors to do more analysis and of these me that was a because I've read some of these authors who haven't much of here they did it. It just my It was so exciting to both of those I'm also about it from the You get in your and you stuff with them in mind, if were that was going to take them really and put them into a different and maybe even them to a I think their work don't That's what I'm It's by doing what Amanda said, take the we're to these we love and we your and we take it and we think it's time and and and about it. So and and and do I think the book does that. It Randy Astle has a question for this book is what of did you that are or at I'm at first is, how do we not have a chapter in kind of art? from the The with the culture or or or me, we this actually in the but I would have for to have on the art of because it's just the moment that we're in right now. does these and this I think I would have to have talk about that in the moment right with the The thing I would have to have and maybe this something we could have as but I was just in to into and in to and Mormon There are some I know who have been around with it. I would have to on Those are topics for the It's not a on what you It's like a for what could I would one more you I'm going to these really But just to It me think that one of the most Mormon of was because on The and did that But because did the the for The it me think that you have these Latter-day Saint these working with or or of them are and doing the work for these I would love to a chapter on their work too. So as what new of in the history of LDS art and visual art and culture do you it a little What would scholars want to do art and visual art and What do you think the next of scholarship This is an exciting question because I've been in with who the book Mormon and been talking about this a little I think we've seen a few really exciting especially since I talk about this in my chapter a little that have or and like that. But really I is something is through right is, how do we our own stories and our own as people who up in maybe the Church or who are in the how do we that with our And especially as as well as in their chapters, some of the of Mormon I think there's a lot to be there and But I think the next step is to I this in my chapter a little the or to the of our as of that have and how that isn't something that can actually be me, I'd love to more in the of art in I know there are who have on this I would love to more that really that We are and that's what us It's our that make us but it's not our as much if we think of it I for me, that would be the next just and this history of but to think through what it to be a in our has two questions I think are really great. I want to know what the most of the was and how you And I also want to know what you the volume would be like and how that with how it What was the most of the It's a great question. I think for me, it was Glen the of with a lot of the and stuff like that. He really out on that And Amanda was so in all the on and so I like for me to I would say probably in the It was very and very but it was also just very We so much about but not and to and them much in It was to that and to give them as much as we That's where most of my So that was the most in that I would We were working with a lot of We had twenty-two and we had an with the for Latter-day and we were working with as all of those different and and that all those who have a in the can be really I that very because I to also academic as I through this book. So to me, was the of that in those different out how to work was I as Mason talked about with the it that it was a challenge that comes with this of working with people and out their different with the authors and that we were to what they were and interpreting and out to content in that we could in a that was kind I think was I think the thing that was for me was working with making an art history book that written by all art That a because working with an array of scholars who were not art historians us to center visual analysis and their also from their to about As an art I with a very different having from them as The of question is something that I get quite a lot working for the for Latter-day Saint about just the of this thing So this volume a of scholars with a of did you to a more of what art is and there such a thing as Latter-day Saint and The of our book, the that you about how we Latter-day Saint art. It's really that's to It about the of the much the artist that into the I think this question me and Mason because when we first down with the all of the authors to this question. It's a little and maybe even not really as interesting of a question to me but it's a question that to be if we're making a book about Mormon art, what is it, But what more this question of what Latter-day Saint art is, and what's far more interesting Mormon art is what put in the that art is or and what their work with that and working from there to if there are some that them This is really I like the of and authors the works for This is how all the works were for this book. all of the we were like, you have what you need as long as it's within to images. So it don't know if is the right the I is a to a of also that within or to the is so long as and it on that me that's what the what we say it gave us a few questions to ask so me ask two questions. his first With so much going on in the a book on LDS art What does it have to say that to what's going on now?Beardsley: to that is and If not This has been a long time as you talked think it was was it's been a long time That's one I could it. The I would is to say that this is a book that has a lot of with a lot of the that are going on in the right now. With and we have chapters that really into some of the going on around and and In in my as well as in a lot of chapters we are about topics, we're talking about what it to in I think is a new or not new but a really topic to think about with to cinema. If you're in a and are in this where your not I think we have that are really to a lot of what is talked both in scholarship as well as what's talked about in the right now. It's a really interesting historical I in that because our authors are very with doing that kind of In the of this we were talking about this a in scholarship. This book could very well have been written a ago, and should have been written, but it would be a very different book. I think this book from be a very different book when there are more books that take it and with the of it. see, me ask this question to you that What are some of the that you most in this your or I to to a of that me, because I was with that also a lot of the often more but not by Latter-day of what we have a more of Latter-day Saint art So I'm going to from chapter because at the art In one to read this book, you've got to read that but maybe with chapter that has all the more and and read others to the history that got us there. from there that speak to question. One is by a artist who these for He this from his who's one of the in He this process, in the that to the Church of of Latter-day and about what's the of would the of is so for in and the he's in as an What up doing is these new of that have from the of Mormon on them and stuff like that. I you've got to these out and think about how he's with that in his and working it out with his as these The one is an artist from who has this one I want to speak this on I of and or of the of He has on a where he's up in the of it and I think it up with over the of the and he's the But a lot of the I've seen of this where it's this thing of you get to the maybe out and to has it where in the and the and it out to to really some of that I there to This to the is out in his artwork, different of that from this artist in that I just think is really and surprise some who with these from around the how do you this book as a to about and or topics within Latter-day Saint does art a in that I think we can the book just think we probably need to get those interested in Latter-day Saint culture and history, at how art can be and has been in a for people this or within it to with and to their in that are very but also have these that like they with If you think about what it of or I do like in it's art or art, you more of stories and and I think with Latter-day you have a lot more or with or or in that I think show up in the art. The art is the it's but also to and That's really and more and appreciation in its in doing the two of you generally that art is a really great to a about And if that is the maybe an or some about I for instance, we with an to up the I think of that is to make on their own about maybe a if I the as or just say what could be from this on what you that and can with what we know about the in what we see, and take it to this for me, a is talking about it or the or the or the the what have in front of our because we have of it in one for all of our own I think that's what is about art as this for is that it's a but we have to that as art In that I think it us a of to some With Mormon art in I think where chapter really comes in his of and you what to do and that to be at with but within it as a I think that's where you're talking in a really interesting is in have that or that of that them to is my within this and up some of those of I don't want to say that it's only about because it's an of a in a lot of when we it. That's what is I about it. That's what us, a lot of the to really talk about these topics such as this history of race within that a lot of people have had a really time talking about for a very long as well as and within the too. in my I in the artist about of within a Mormon able to talk about through that in our was really both for as well as in a that I think would Mormon to understand how those more of into those I think a lot of the that I know are interested in a That's of the that you were I say the is for the I I think to tell a story. It's just a different kind of thing that working So I love the that you have an and people are around it and just talking about it. Then one thing to and you're into that something to them. their or their to it is different from because of their experience, and that you to them and you and all of that a question about the and for this history, what does it to you about what should next? do you the next two of LDS art and I have how to the question. talked quite a bit about the of new of this of a or of it, but since we're talking about the as a I would love to more of a of that just and love for Latter-day Saint art. you're with the for Latter-day Saint this is what you're all about. If you had that of your all over the at in to take very and to get more with stuff that's already out there in the Latter-day Saint and to and for that up would like, to a very history of and I want to do this something new and it new I like there's been much of a with a that and and this to want to more and be a little more and it in new would be that in two it would be some of these we've but maybe in some as far as the new it's gone and new we would But I have I'm not a I think this also at question about there in in two be more to these and to having those of that really do for a little bit more of the Church because I think that a lot of the do give some really interesting on their I think in two my is that have more art books of Allred has a question for the two of I think we've the first of the question, is about what you have and new stories and new through the But this of it that a little bit more with be to to our today. do you this and in The question that would up and has up in this is what is Mormon art? This is going to be for because we to this up in the as an We that question, but we're more interested in new questions. We think it's actually going to be more to ask new questions. I'm that be the that it's not so much to be about what is or isn't Mormon art and what those are It's more like, what's the new questions we can ask about I think these chapters that in new So I'm the like you said, the new questions about the of this artwork, but on the new questions about and and new that can be that with but it in new is what I'm to is I of funny because you that your book is going to the This is a book about Mormon art history, and I find it to be one of the most I've ever on in my and I'm very of it. But for those who read it and are to it, I do that it like Mason said, to and the you the I would that that a in and of is that it more that it to make us sit down and have about what these and what are the of how we and how we people of If we can from those like we from and chapters, how can we make as a What are the case studies that us to not I would a historian and as who art as much as I would that people can that as a case is the and at and in art history from and have from sound studies and feminism in Mormon culture to and studies, and is the of Latter-day Saint Art: A Critical Reader and has in and and is an of and culture at He his and from the of He is the of and and of and the of of work has also in such as and