A Life of Systems Thinking: Michael C. Jackson in Conversation With Matt Lloyd and Rajneesh Chowdhury

ABSTRACT This systems profile is a transcript of the conversation between Michael C. Jackson, Matt Lloyd and Rajneesh Chowdhury, held in 2023 at the University of Hull. The conversation provides a window onto the life and motivations of Jackson, covering his early life and education, his lifelong journey with systems thinking and his hopes for the future of the discipline. Jackson highlights the contribution of systems thinking to those areas where there is greater complexity and uncertainty. He delves into what drove him to craft critical systems thinking as a transdiscipline based on a pragmatist philosophy, understanding the strengths and weaknesses of methodologies from different traditions to aid practitioners in using them in combination. Jackson is optimistic about the future of systems thinking, highlighting that governments and businesses need to embrace it to cope better with the complexities they face.